Website time and finances

mbieweng

Posts: 481
Joined: 2006-10-31
Dad Points: 1924

Creating and maintaining this site takes a fair amount of time. It also takes some amount of money.

The money pays for things like web hosting (the site is too complicated to work on basic free hosting plans) and software. The time goes to things like debugging, developing new features, designing pretty pages that people like to look at, editing posts, fighting spam, and responding to a steady stream of inquiries from members, press, and random visitors.

In theory, some of this work could be delegated. The reality is that the volunteer pool is composed of dispersed, very busy, and elsewhere-committed dads. That brings great intentions, but a lot of difficulties. (See ).

Thus far, the time has come from my life, and the money has come from my pocket.

I'd like to solicit some opinions on this. Here are a few alternatives that come to mind:

1) Keep things as-is
2) Generate some income by, for example, having some (unobtrusive) ad sponsorship on the site
3) Accept donations

So, what are your thoughts? What will offend you? What will you support?

Submitted by mbieweng on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 2:37pm.

MileHiDad

Posts: 701
Joined: 2006-11-06
Dad Points: 1378

Accept Donations

Mike,
Thanks again for providing this service!
Once again a 501c3 would make all doantions tax deductable when people doante, but the designation is big $$.
I'll slide you some cash and beer you if you're at the convention and we get the chance. If not, mail me an address where I can send a check.
My Site, http://www.milehidad.com/ and my Blog, http://www.milehighdad.net/
Make Babies, Not War!
I Wanna Know How Forever Feels...

Tue, 10/23/2007 - 3:17pm

dayv27

Posts: 364
Joined: 2006-11-03
Dad Points: 657

paypal?

I've seen sites where you could donate by paypal as well.

What kind of funding are you looking for? Would $5.00 a year donation from everyone be enough to pay for hosting?

www.athomedadconvention.com

Tue, 10/23/2007 - 3:35pm

Tim E

Posts: 147
Joined: 2006-11-13
Dad Points: 213

$$?

Throw a collection can on the table at the convention?

Cdn Tim

Tue, 10/23/2007 - 3:47pm

JohnGilroy

Posts: 418
Joined: 2007-04-26
Dad Points: 670

Advertising/Donations

My feeling is you should go with advertising and donations.
I wouldn't mind seeing a link to amazon beside a post where someone recommends a book for example. A banner and a few links in the sidebar would be ok too.
I'm in favour of donations too but I don't think that they on their own will adequately compensate you for your time. Hopefully overtime advertising could grow to a point where you wouldn't need donations.

Tue, 10/23/2007 - 4:54pm

Uke_Skywalker

Posts: 247
Joined: 2006-11-12
Dad Points: 611

Big Cash

I hear that the Pornography suppliers of the WWW have lots of money to give out, and after the Magazine thread I know there are some some folks know thier way around Bodatious_Ta-Tas.com. But seriously, I would be willing to see an ad here and there without having it really detract, and I would not be totally opposed to throwing in a bit of the green as well.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Denver_Dad/

Tue, 10/23/2007 - 6:15pm

JPhillip

Posts: 662
Joined: 2006-11-17
Dad Points: 957

Some of both would be ok.

The PayPal donations button would be a good idea. I wouldn't mind seeing a few ads if they were tasteful, legit and relevant to us.

Tue, 10/23/2007 - 7:42pm

randyfielding

Posts: 338
Joined: 2007-02-05
Dad Points: 376

My Vote Is For Both Ads and Donations Also

Mike -

I would not mind in any way giving you a donation through PayPal or whatever to keep the site running. Also, advertising is so ubiquitous on the web these days that I would not care at all if you had a couple of banner ads here and there. All-in-all, do what you need to do to keep this great site running. As MoveOn.org says, "Thanks for all you do!"

- Randy

Tue, 10/23/2007 - 9:37pm

distatica

Posts: 66
Joined: 2007-10-22
Dad Points: 81

I agree with the others

Advertising and a PayPal donation button would be great, Ads are so common place these days that most of us have learned to read the content without being bothered by advertising at all, I have often found myself clicking on ads of interest to me depending on the reputation of the site hosting them. Hand picking your advertisements (I know this is NOT an easy task, or always plausible) might help since then we know each ad has more to do with meeting our needs then it does with a giant pool of random advertisers.

Keep up the great work and I hope that you get at the very least your costs (both financial and time) met.

Sincerely,
distatica.

Wed, 10/24/2007 - 12:13am

Casa Grande

Posts: 2
Joined: 2007-10-24
Dad Points: 2

As a forum administrator

As a forum administrator myself, I implemented an ad supported and donation campaign some time ago. I started serving ads and for those on the board who didn't want to see the ads, I charged a nominal fee to get rid of them (along with some other goodies). It wouldn't hurt to start by putting a simple "donation" button to paypal and see what happens. I generate more than enough revenue to keep my board alive for years to come now.

Wed, 10/24/2007 - 8:49am

MileHiDad

Posts: 701
Joined: 2006-11-06
Dad Points: 1378

Nice web site you have, you an at Home Dad as well?

My Site, http://www.milehidad.com/ and my Blog, http://www.milehighdad.net/
Make Babies, Not War!
I Wanna Know How Forever Feels...

Wed, 10/24/2007 - 10:54am

msmithivas

Posts: 230
Joined: 2006-11-05
Dad Points: 454

donation and ads

Sounding like a broken record, but yes to donations and ads. A 501c3 takes a huge amount of time and legal fees to obtain, and you might not be successful in the end. If you have a pro bono attorney willing to do the heavy lifting, then maybe go for it.

What about taking on some partners who might be willing to invest in the project?

Finally, you could always outsource the hosting and infrastructure to a "white label" service like Ning. You'd lose a bit of control but wouldn't have to worry about updating and scaling servers, software, etc. Since I get the feeling you're not in it to make a profit, removing a lot of the headaches by ceding the hosting might accomplish what you originally set out to do.

Mark

Wed, 10/24/2007 - 8:06pm

brianc

Posts: 362
Joined: 2006-11-02
Dad Points: 459

Dads and Ads

Hey Mike,

First, I'd like to acknowledge you for all you do in keeping this site running, fixing all the bugs and keeping all of us kids behaving nicely.

I am more than happy to donate to the cause. I know how hard you work on this and other endeavors as well as take care of family and home.

Setting up a PayPal donation button on the site seems to be a popular solution. As far as the non-profit status, I wonder if we could talk to Mike S. of Daddy's Home, Inc. at the convention on his thoughts about the site.

I'll put out the "anything I can do to help" call, and I mean it.

Thanks again!

Brian

Wed, 10/24/2007 - 9:25pm

KevH

Posts: 365
Joined: 2006-11-16
Dad Points: 540

small ads would be nice

and if they were relevant, might even help someone out.

I'm Not a Slacker

Thu, 10/25/2007 - 1:53pm

Tim E

Posts: 147
Joined: 2006-11-13
Dad Points: 213

relevant ads

Kev H wrote:
"small ads would be nice and if they were relevant, might even help someone out."

Ya, like the one currently playing in the google ads sidebar.

Are You A Sugar Daddy?
Super Hot Chicks looking for daddy. Rich Guys looking for hot chicks.
www.sugardaddies.com

:-)

Fri, 10/26/2007 - 9:14am

JPhillip

Posts: 662
Joined: 2006-11-17
Dad Points: 957

Sugardaddies?

Sugardaddies? I hardly think so, unless Hershey Kisses and Dum Dums count. I think we have more in common with the super hot chicks, except we already have found our Sugarmammas.

Fri, 10/26/2007 - 9:44am

mbieweng

Posts: 481
Joined: 2006-10-31
Dad Points: 1924

Thanks

Gentlemen -

Thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate your understanding and words of support. I'll try a few of the above suggestions as time permits, and we can go from there. If something I try sucks, let me know (I'm sure you will....) and we'll adjust accordingly.

If nothing else, the google ads are good for a laugh....

Thanks,

Mike

Fri, 10/26/2007 - 10:16pm

distatica

Posts: 66
Joined: 2007-10-22
Dad Points: 81

Payout

Mike,

Out of general curiosity are the Ads per click, or per 1,000 or so impressions?

I don't know about the others but I don't mind clicking on some ads and just checking out what they have to offer if that will help the cause. Who knows, I might find something I like.

Thanks.

Sat, 10/27/2007 - 12:33am

randyfielding

Posts: 338
Joined: 2007-02-05
Dad Points: 376

You mean...

distatica wrote:

I don't know about the others but I don't mind clicking on some ads and just checking out what they have to offer if that will help the cause. Who knows, I might find something I like.

You mean like "Super Hot Chicks!" Count me in! ;)

You see why it is good to keep our wives away from this site... :p

- Randy

Sat, 10/27/2007 - 1:41am

originaldad

Posts: 6
Joined: 2007-10-23
Dad Points: 6

I am Agree with the ads and

I am Agree with the ads and Paypal donation, You could add Paypal donation somewhere in the site here, and you have add Advertising from Google ads in the left. May be you could make a little change with the ads look by blending the ads with this site.

For the ads in the left, you could change the color of the background same as this site background, and change the link color same as the other links here. May be you could add one Ads code in your top bar navigation with horizontal Ads link type.

regards,

Guni

Sat, 10/27/2007 - 1:47am

mbieweng

Posts: 481
Joined: 2006-10-31
Dad Points: 1924

Ads

The ads are mostly per click (it's usually only about 10 cents or so). Google tries to show relevant ads based on the content of the pages, the overall site, and what people have clicked on. Sometimes, it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't.

Feel free to click on them if they're interesting. Still, I'd rather have people hanging out here than clicking on ads.. :-)

Sat, 10/27/2007 - 9:55am

JohnGilroy

Posts: 418
Joined: 2007-04-26
Dad Points: 670

Amazon

This guys blog is interesting. http://bigpicture.typepad.com/
He has his Amazon wishlist posted so someone can buy him a book or a movie or whatever if they like. A nice alternative to paypal donations.
He also has it set up so that if someone clicks through to Amazon and buys a book or cd he recommends he gets a small payment from Amazon. Or at least thats what I think happens.
That might work nicely alongside the list of favorite books suggestion that I saw here recently. And since the Dads spend a lot of time talking about cds books movies etc. it would be nice to have the Amazon link alongside to check the item out and maybe purchase. Of course I have no clue how hard this would be to implement.

Sat, 10/27/2007 - 10:29am

JPhillip

Posts: 662
Joined: 2006-11-17
Dad Points: 957

My Duty

I just clicked on four google adds, hitting the back button to get back here each time. So, I guess that's my first 40 cents worth of monetary support.

Sat, 10/27/2007 - 11:04am

Uke_Skywalker

Posts: 247
Joined: 2006-11-12
Dad Points: 611

And .40 more

So do you get .10 everytime we click on a new ad or is it once a day or if we clicked the same one 4 times do you still get the .40? And when I clicked on the "Super Hot Chicks" ad I got sent to a site about how to make the perfect omlelet, could you have someone look into that for me?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Denver_Dad/

Sat, 10/27/2007 - 11:53am

MileHiDad

Posts: 701
Joined: 2006-11-06
Dad Points: 1378

.10 I Wish!

The Google Ads on my blog pay out .03 per click and I am still waiting to reach the minimum so I can get paid the whopping $20.00, I think that’s the minimum amount you have to earn to get paid. That would be 666.666666666667 clickthroughs to get 20 bucks, I average 100-150 visitors a day on my Blog resulting in 125 to 250 page views a day and out of that I get maybe 3 Google Ad clickthroughs. I’ll get rich in no time flat with Google!

My Site, http://www.milehidad.com/ and my Blog, http://www.milehighdad.net/
Make Babies, Not War!
I Wanna Know How Forever Feels...

Sat, 10/27/2007 - 9:04pm

JPhillip

Posts: 662
Joined: 2006-11-17
Dad Points: 957

Adjusted Calculation

Ok, so maybe I only did my first 12 cents worth of good deeds. I'll go get 12 cents more right now.

Sun, 10/28/2007 - 7:08am

MileHiDad

Posts: 701
Joined: 2006-11-06
Dad Points: 1378

Internal Server Errors

Ney Mike,
FYI, I am getting more and more Internal Server Error pages when navigating through the posts. Pretty random, but they are happening more often.

My Site, http://www.milehidad.com/ and my Blog, http://www.milehighdad.net/
Make Babies, Not War!
I Wanna Know How Forever Feels...

Sun, 10/28/2007 - 11:25am

distatica

Posts: 66
Joined: 2007-10-22
Dad Points: 81

Likewise

Internal Errors for me too.

Also, Mike, do you get paid more for the larger graphical advertisements than Google ads? So far I have found the graphical ads to be more entertaining to click on than Adsense.

Most of the Google stuff seems to be misleading junk, either leading to sites that have nothing to do with the initial advertisement, or leading to sites obviously setup with nothing but even more advertising. Yesterday I found a graphical ad for chapters.indigo.ca a Canadian book company that I am already aware of, this is more the kind of stuff I'd be willing to check out.

Of course I understand this takes more time to get good advertisements, and isn't always possible, Google ads are often a necessary evil.

Sun, 10/28/2007 - 11:35am

MileHiDad

Posts: 701
Joined: 2006-11-06
Dad Points: 1378

Researched

I was just at Google AdSense looking for a pay schedule/rate and I couldn't find any real numbers per click, just this:
"From a publisher's perspective, the effective cost-per-thousand impressions (eCPM) is a useful way to compare revenue across different channels and advertising programs. It is calculated by dividing total earnings by the number of impressions in thousands." At this rate it would take a lifetime to get to the $100.00 not $20 as I stated above. I have $17.85 in earnings so far, yippeee!
I got 20 channels set up, but still.
"We'll send your check or EFT payment within approximately 30 days of the end of the month in which your account balance reaches US $100, unless a payment hold exists or unless otherwise agreed to in writing (including electronic mail). "
My earning stats:
Ad Impressions
2,059
On Pages (no idea, don't ask)
12
ClickThruRatio (no idea, don't ask)
0.58%
Per Page (no idea, don't ask)
$2.41
eCPM (cost per click average?)
$4.96
My Earnings
$0
I do realize you got to have boccu traffic like Microsoft.com or Amazon.com to profit from this. Little At Home Dad Blogs just don't have the mass appeal that say Office 2007 has!
Maybe Google AdWords is the way to go, but that costs.

My Site, http://www.milehidad.com/ and my Blog, http://www.milehighdad.net/
Make Babies, Not War!
I Wanna Know How Forever Feels...

Sun, 10/28/2007 - 5:34pm

mbieweng

Posts: 481
Joined: 2006-10-31
Dad Points: 1924

Errors

I'm working on tracking down the errors. They are really ticking me off. We're probably going to need more server horsepower...which is one of the reasons for starting this thread.

If you notice any consistent pattern to the errors, please let me know.

In the meantime, hitting the "refresh" button on your browser will almost always get the page to load without error.

Sun, 10/28/2007 - 11:59pm

mbieweng

Posts: 481
Joined: 2006-10-31
Dad Points: 1924

No, nobody needs to pay. I definitely want to keep it free. The whole original purpose was to give something back to the AHD community (not to make a buck), and that's still the purpose. I will find a way to work out the logistics.

Mon, 10/29/2007 - 3:58pm

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