Today's Wall Street Journal has some interesting view points about stay at home dads.
http://blogs.wsj.com/juggle/2008/03/12/the-stay-at-home-dad-as-role-model/
Wall Street Journal SAHD Perspectives
1st comment kills me
Anonymous wrote:
By this reasoning fathers who stay at home are reinforcing the idea that it is okay to be dependent on your spouse, which in turn will make it easier for the grown up daughter to say if it was good enough for my dad, it’s good enough for me.
So we're all life-sucking leeches I take it.
My mom was a SAHM and it had no impact whatsoever on our decision to for me to be a SAHD. I never looked at her and thought, "well it's good enough for her..."
Discombobulated... can't... form... coherent... sentences.
ARGH!
-Will
gamingwithbaby.com | all your diapers are belong to us
my flickr
Redacted comment.
Indeed.
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life-sucking leeches?
You are quoting a bit selectively GWB
the commenter says: "Any woman who feels strongly that her working outside the home makes her a better role model for her daughters, should feel equally strongly that it essential for her husband to work outside the home for the same reason".
Many (most?) girls in the US are raised to be submissive spouses and SAHMs dependent on their husbands and often stuck in vulnerable or shitty situations. If you were a woman is that the example you would want to set for your daughter?
Personally I feel very happy and lucky to be at home with my kids but I am not dependent on my wife. If my daughter (or son) turned around to me at 16 and announced that instead of getting an education and some marketable skills her lifeplan was to snag a spouse who would support her for the rest of her life I would have a fit. Not because she would be a "lifesucking leech" but because she would become dependent - giving another person a lot of power over her rather than being a strong independent individual in her own right. That doesn't mean if she chose to be a SAHP later I wouldn't support her but I would worry about her becoming too dependent on someone else.
A matter of reciprocity
The comment is perhaps a more common way of thinking than it ought to be in consideration of the family.
Why is it not okay to be dependent on your spouse? A family is founded on a marriage, the marriage is based on a partnership. When a family decides to have a parent at home, whichever role each chooses and takes on, both partners are still dependent upon the other for the role the other is fulfilling. It is a mutually working arrangement, and ideally both sides respect and understand the significance of the other in regards to both work and the family.
When it comes to which is more important, there are many opinions and values on the subject, largely why this is such a hot topic.
The typical value system of our society overall, rank from 1-3 in importance, would look something like this when viewing an individuals abilities or status;
1.) Money/Power/Career
2.) Appearance/Sexual Ability
3.) Education
2 and 3 can be considered more or less interchangeable.
Most people will typically place a higher value on these than on the family or one's ability to parent, not everyone, just most.
Such things as ongoing rise in divorce rates, both parents working, rise in family related problems and the like, all give credence to this.
So going back to the family roles, most people are typically inclined to think that the more important or desirable one is the career role. However, this is based on societal values, not family values, in the process of making family choices and decisions (or simply making the family work). As opposed to being based on family values, where each role is equally important and interdependent on the other in making a family successful.
Why is it not okay to be
Why is it not okay to be dependent on your spouse?
I agree with most of what you said SMB and I don't think everyone should be planning an exit strategy but inevitably we are all flawed and many relationships will end. If you don't have something outside of kids, spouse and household, it is going to be tougher to make a new start, and that probably leads to people staying in bad relationships longer than they should. After all no one likes to think that their house might burn down but we go ahead and buy insurance anyway.
Word yo...
Chef Kev,
That's a lot for 2 cents, and you would make a great example that most people who have never stayed home with kids have very little idea of just how much it can entail.
It would be an improved switch, but as a model, the value ranks of society have remained relatively unchanged for years.
Aside from the prime groups you've mentioned posting, the one's that influences the most are the one's in the seat of power, the working upper and upper middle classes. They may be a large minority population wise, but they have the power, money and mechanisms of social control and persuasion, if you will, to influence the rest of us and maintain the status quo.
All of which is a very powerful thing, everyone knows in any social situation, it is easier to just blend in or go along than to attempt to buck the system.
As SAHD's or any SAH parent, it's important to give notice and make the separation of conflicting values. It was late last night so I'm not sure my point were totally clear. Both roles are equally important when it comes to the family (even if not largely viewed this way by society), regardless of which parent stays home and which goes to work. Societal values and family values can often be very conflicting, and for the benefits of ourselves and our families it is wise to understand and separate the differences.
I agree...
with you JohnGillroy, we all likely need something beyond AHDism, whatever that may be is up to each of us to determine. Gotta do what you gotta do. If anyone feels they have to do such and such to make the whole work better, than by all means get to it. If you feel you have to work part-time or full-time, arrangements can always be made. No one should have to feel trapped. Making a plan on what to do is an excellent idea, the time is going by so fast. I was actually thinking of posting a topic about this. Even though I have my own business going part time selling stuff online, I recently enrolled for an online Physical Therapy Assistant program that will take 2 years. The money is great, the field is in high demand and if nothing else for now it gives me something else to work on outside of AHD. Plus there's a lot more security than the business, benefits and the rest, so it also will serve as a backup plan just in case, God forbid, anything unexpected were to happen.
Part of our being successful at what we are doing for the well being of our kids would also include taking care of our own well being, our spouses well being, that of our marriage, other family, friendships and the like. These also have a trickle down effect on our kids. There are resources within our grasp for each of these, and we should be prepared to seek and use them where need be, no one is an island.
Even if our relationship is not meant to be and as a last resort where to end, you still have the opportunity to make the most of it for all involved. I've worked with a number of divorce families that have done just that and are happy and well adjusted. Also others that didn't put forth the effort and work through things quite as well. Point is that's it's upon us to take the initiative. There's not much that can't be fixed if it's broken.
My wife and I had gone through a rough spell for well over a year. We both thought that our relationship was over on several occasions but we also both stuck it out. With time and some work, fortunately things got better. In some cases, time alone is medicine, things just change.
Great point of view SMB..Here's my .02$
the only thing I can't get on board with is I feel #3 should be #1 with out that you don't have #1...
As for traditional roles in the eyes of society. I think a lot of the comments come from 1. Baby Booming men.
2. Upper middle class SAHM's, the kind that belong to a Country club and have nanny's, people who do research ( No ill feeling for the last group, because I feel they help the cause not hurt it 90% of the time.) As I say with every post with this sort of tone IMHO. If I am off base please tell me and if I am to narrow minded please forgive me.
Now for the nitty gritty of my comments. These thing are what I do around the house that my wife and both agree we would out source if I was working. These also go above and beyond the AVERAGE SAHP duties.
I do plumbing, electric work, tile, carpentry , carpeting, groom the dogs, refinish furniture, Cater out side of the house ( for friends), Dry wall, auto mech.( not just oil changes either ), car detailing ( for cash) ,
I am the total package Baby!!!!!!!!!!!!
So when it is all said and done my time as a SAHD is well spent and I can justify my being here. Not just to be a leader for my daughter but a viable part of our family economic system.
Chef Kev
NaNu NaNu and Shazbot at one time were all part of our vocabulary
JPhillip said it, therefor it is, Chef= C=Caring, H=Helpful, E=Excellent, F=Fubar.
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