Scenario: We are 2 months into going to the Catholic Communion Classes for 1st Graders, there is a proper name for it I am sure. The wife is Catholic, I am not. Our 7 year old son no longer enjoys going to "church school" once a week and hides under his bed not to go. Mom either chooses to work or has to work late on "church school" night putting my son and me in MAJOR CONFLICT and making me the "bad guy" by forcing him to go to something I could care less about. Please don't tell me to convert because it's not going to happen. It is big on her agenda that he be Catholic and not so on his. He spends all day in school and just wants to play with friends at the end of the day, not to go learn about Jesus just so he can do communion.
I told her tonight he is hiding under his bed not to go and she talked to him on the cell bribing him with taking treats to the class for his Birthday last month to the point he said "OK FINE". If we continue on in this fashion he is going to want something every week to take or develop a real distaste for church while separating us in our father son relationship. I told her tonight that I am not going to do this anymore and she had better be here to get him to go. Tonight she was all too ready to drop everything and come home at the last second to make everything better. Anyway, she got all in a huff when I brought this last fact to her attention and ended up saying “I can’t just leave” where I responded “You just did”.
Because of her agreement, I had to go buy 10 bucks in treats at the last second just so he could make her agenda. This is not fair to anybody involved.
What would you do?
Sticky Situation, What Would You Do?
I am in a similar situation, but it's not the child going to Catechism (that's what it's called by the way), it's her siblings. Let me explain...
I too am not Catholic, but my wife was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school K-8. My daughter is in 2nd grade and just completed Reconciliation (first confession) and will do 1st Communion in April. She loves to go. My problem is her 3 younger siblings; well, mostly the 2 youngest (2 and 1). Catechism is from 4pm to 5:10pm. It takes 15 minutes to get there and I usually have to go pick her up too because my wife, who originally promised to pick her up, is often out of town on Wednesdays. If my 2 year old doesn't take a nap during the day, he falls asleep in the car and then screams for 45 minutes when we get home. If he takes the nap, he's up until 10pm or later. Also, somewhere in there I have to make dinner because the 1 year old is bawling because she is hungry.
I told my wife that if I couldn't get this situation to be more manageable, I was going to take the oldest out of Catechism. The stress just wasn't worth it to me and she was unable to help consistently. Now, if my daughter hated it like your son, it would have been done, but since she enjoys going, I have been working on ways to manage it better. I give all the kids a pretty big snack right before 4pm and I give the 2 year old a short nap and get the screaming after waking up out of the way at around 2pm when the baby is sleeping and everyone else is at school.
For your situation, here's what I suggest... anyone can go through the steps of becoming a Catholic AT ANY TIME. Sure, it's not ideal, but it can be done. Talk it over with your wife and tell her you think he should stop taking the classes for now. Your son obviously doesn't understand why he has to go and, it's probably not so much fun for him. Your wife needs to have an open and honest discussion with him on why he needs to go. You should support that. However, I think he shouldn't go to something he doesn't want to do and doesn't understand why he should. If I was you, I would have yanked him already.
Al Daddyshome, Inc. - The National At-Home Dad Network www.daddyshome.org
I don't have that situation exactly, but I did live it as a child. I was raised Catholic, although not very strictly. This just means my parents rarely went to church (thank goodness, cause then I didn't have to either). I was "FORCED" to go to CCD (Catholic School). I absolutely hated it, and faked multiple illnesses to get out of it. I begged not to go. I was familiar with God, and what everything meant. I knew right from wrong and to treat others with respect and compassion. Still I was forced to go, because you "have to get confirmed". Confirmation happens somewhere in High School typically. I think when I was 16 I was finally in the last stages, when a priest told me I am not ready, because I don't speak to God regularly. Well, I was 16 and told the truth about not speaking to God all the time. Maybe if I had lied I would been allowed into God's world.
Anyway... I finally told my parents and they finally gave up. At that point there was little they could do to force me to finish. Even without Confirmation, I still know right from wrong. I knew this when I was your child's age, but still I labored through what I felt were pointless teachings. I have no problem with anyone wanting to learn a religion, or following a religious belief. However, I feel it should not be forced.
Our 4 year old is now at a Lutheran (similar to Catholic) preschool. We wanted her to have some introduction to God, so she can decide if she wants to continue with the teachings. So far she likes it, but she is 4 and also likes Wow Wow Wubzy. In the end it will be their choice, not ours. Just as it was for me.
Good luck.
I know your pain from a child's perspective. I was forced to attend Hebrew School classes while growing up. I had enough of a hard time with regular school and then was forced to attend Hebrew school. I found it quite boring and painful because I did not understand it at all and had a hard time learning things in Hebrew as the Rabbi was instructing. Then for some holidays there was a competition within the class that I always was towards the bottom of the class. It only added to my low self-esteem and confidence.
I would hope that you are able to work it out with the wife that maybe she works with your son that the two of them attend church together and your wife is able to show your son why it is so important to her. If there is a way that she is able to make it fun for him while in church with her, then maybe he'll decide that he wants to do more of the things that he sees mommy and others doing every week. That way it is explained to him that in order to participate in the church services, he has to complete the classes. If it is so important to her for him to participate in church, then it is up to her to make it as pleasureable for him so that he would want to go. Hiding at her job and forcing you to be the mean parent is not something that is acceptable in my opinion.
Hope my thoughts help some how and best of luck in your challenge with church.
I’ve had many stick situations ( and war stories) with my wife besides the topic of religion in my 19 year at-home dad career. I feel that most of my wife’s overzealous and irrational decisions for our children were brought upon by peer pressure from other moms and her parents. I also feel that Tina made these decisions to please them and worried and cared more about their feelings and opinions than mine.
Tina was raised Lutheran. I was raised Baptist but converted to the “Church of What’s Happening Now,” led by pastor Flip Wilson. As you can see I’m not a faithful church attendee but I do believe in God and another life. I do want our children to follow the words of God but I don’t want to slam it down their throat.
Prior to our marriage I agreed to let Tina raise the boys Lutheran as long as she promised not to go over board with the kids and not force me to go to church on Sunday’s if I decided not to go or make me feel guilty if I didn’t go. Well, naturally Tina didn’t follow through and I had to make the compromises. Arrggghhh!
I want our children to figure out what religion they want to choose and what they want to do with their life. I’m just their guide. I have a little more FAITH in our children than Tina.
I honestly don’t care what religion our children choose. What I care more about is how they behave and treat other people. I’d rather be a dedicated husband who doesn’t attend church and be identified as a bad Christian by evangelists like Hagee than a philandering husband who attends church and is identified as a good Christian.
Not much a husband/dad can do in these sticky situations except express his opinion in a quiet soft tone. Yelling, doesn’t help the cause. I’ve tried. J
Presenting a rationale and common sense explanation to my wife also does not work. Once Tina goes into irrational mode she turns into a she-devil. So I resigned myself to excusing me and my kids from going to church with comments like:
"Honey the kids could use a break from church. They've had a pretty busy week. I promise to take them to church next week."
"I had a rough week. I'm really tired honey and so are the kids. Can we just spend Sunday as a family at home?"
"Can we do a Sunday family picnic with just you me and the kids?"
"Oh I forgot to tell you, the kids wanted to go to this special event on Sunday. They've been really good all week and deserve a break."
"Honey, the car won't start." Just kidding....
Another strategy I used. I called one of my wife's friends once and asked her to invite Tina to go out with her on Sunday. I explained to her friend that Tina needed to get out and have some fun.
Hope you will be able to workout a compromise with the wife. Good luck!
I value your input and getting me up to speed on the terminolgy, it made me realize it's not just me.
Religion is often a tough topic to talk about in a forum discussion and I didn't know how it would go over here but with your constructive input you have guided me in formulating a game plan with mom.
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Read the Dead Sea Scrolls. "God is in you and all around you. Split open a piece of wood and you will find him, turn over a stone and he will be there." Basically you don't have to go to a building (church) to worship god you can do it anywhere. The Vatican (Catholic church) has been trying to surpress the Dead Sea Scrolls since they were found in 1947. Not good for thier coffers if people don't show up.
You are already doing what you can... agreeing to bring your son to "church school", when neither you or he wants to be. If its gotten to the point that it's become a serious "chore" and is affecting your relationship with your son, I would tell my wife that if he is to continue to go, she must take him. Bribing him will lead to a bad habit where he will assume that he can get anything he wants in life as long as he holds out long enough through protest. Just my two cents worth.
This last week things have gone well, she has come to the conclusion after talking with her, that if she wants him to be Catholic she has got to be a part of the process. As for my son, time will tell. I foresee him not wanting to go and wanting to play with the DS and WII, I'll support my wife in getting him to say yes because video games is not a valid reason for not wanting to go.
Tomorrow brings another Catechism class and another 7 YO battle?
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With all due respect who runs that house? I am reading the comments in this thread and it sounds like the inmates are running the asylums. I believe that your wife is pissed because you did not handle the situation, and you have to have her come in and handle your son (so basically I believe your wife is saying to herself 'I have to work outside the home, and still handle the children'), she has every right to be pissed. This is a life lesson for your son, that we have to do things in life we don't want to do and religious school is part of that lesson. Your son goes to regular school during the day, well he needs to know that religious school is just part of that day and is just as necessary as regular school. Whether or not you agree with the Catholic religion is not the issue, there are valuble lessons in what he is learning about being a good person. As a dad deal with it, make sure he gets there and do what you have to do to get him there and giving him candy is not the answer. Do you bribe him to go to his regular school? Your son will love you dispite the conflict. Giving the chore to your wife concides that you cannot handle the job at home. These kids know how to push your buttons and your wife's buttons and they will play the ends against the middle everytime. It is up to you to help him make good choices, and candy is not part of that equation. You and your wife need to discuss the goals and direction of your family, as the homemaker it is up to you to carry out that policy, this is your job and you must treat it as any other job. Sorry for the rambling, good luck.
I was in the same situation as a kid. My parents forced me to go to church (Catholic) and sunday school every week. I made it through my first communion though I was constantly being punished by my parents for acting up in class or refusing to go to class. When I was 14 confirmation classes rolled around and I put my foot down refusing to go, also informing my parents that I was agnostic and would no longer attend church (though I didn't use that term at the time). Eventually they relented, my younger sisters weren't so lucky and had to suffer through. They both came out as agnostic or atheist eventually. I'm not sure if this is your son's fate or not. I can tell you that being forced to do something you hate as a child does not bode well for future interest and success in that subject. I'm raising my son as an unbabtized uncircumsised heathen, who knows he may end up being strictly religious because of it. Good luck.
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Uh yeah - TDSS have been largely translated and are still being debated about their meaning. Based on the type of handwriting, parchment and papyrus used the books are dated to about 150 BCE to 70 CE. About 40% of the scrolls are texts of the Hebrew Bible. Another 30% of the identified scrolls are what is called "the Rule of Blessing," a lengthy doc about the rules of the community that may or may not have written the DSS. There are current assertions that the Essence Community at Qumran aren't responsible for the DSS creation. So there is little in the scrolls that would up-turn The Church. The Church survived much worse than TDSS. There is also an Apocrypha, texts and Gospel (Greek for "Good News") that did not make it into the first formed version of the modern bible known as The Latin Vulgate. The Vulgate was commissioned by Pope Damasus in the 5th century. Not to mention that The Gospel of Judas was found almost intact and had no impact on the religious community. The Bible, as we have it today, had existed in one form or another since about the 2nd century, and it doesn't matter what TDSS contain, the Bible isn't going to change. Ethiopian Churches still contain non-orthodox stories (the Greek word of orthodox is catholic) including the story of the Queen of Sheba, texts and venerate John the Baptist; so multiple forms of Christianity still exist.
I was raised Catholic and went through that rig-a-marole to please my folks. I don't practice and have issues with the church and what they do politically. I was a crier about swimming lessons but I had to go. One needs to learn how to swim. But forcing a child to do something, and you to do it when you don't see the point isn't a healthy attitude for you family to take.
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I'm a Catholic and I've actually been working in the Church for the last 10 years so I see where you are coming from and I understand your own frustration.
Your son knows you don't care about it. I agree with the person above, It just has to be something that you do. Either that, or you are really going to be ice-skating uphill. I think that kids see what is important by our actions, not what we tell them.
I would actually sit down with your wife and explain your hesitation and why you don't support this. Then the two of you have to decide if you are going to continue with the whole Catholic thing or not. If you are, then you need to get behind it. I've seen it work, even if the father isn't Catholic, but only if the father is fully supportive of what is going on.
The times I have seen it NEVER word are when the two parents (even if they both claim to be Catholic) see the faith as a burden, something extra in their lives that they are doing to please their own parents or they are doing because there is some sense of obligation, but the truth is that they have nothing better to do.
For us, it's just part of who we are and what we do. It makes our lives better. Our daughters know on Sunday we go to Mass. There is no real debate about it, because it's just what we are doing.
I'm not saying you have to do what we do, but I think the issue is more of your wife and yourself being on the same page on this issue even if you aren't the same faith.
This is a subject so many families struggle with. Since I've been a stay at home dad, one of the committments I made was to teach Sunday School. I've followed my son's class from the nursery to currently 2nd grade. I can say, kids don't find talking about their faith interesting, fun, or cool. I really struggle with the curriculum that is out there. It has all been written by women who think our little boys behave perfectly and will sit still and think everything we read to them is remarkably awesome. Well, it doesn't work that way. I've spent so many hours taking the weekly scripture lessons with the help of "google" coming up with activities, games and projects to keep their interest. The class I teach is 17 kids, 4 girls, the rest boys. I can't be certain how much they retain, but I have a pretty good attendance ratio, I'd say well over 90%. At this age, they are such concrete thinkers, everything we teach them has to be in small pieces and have some activity they can 'touch and feel' or 'build'. So, I think a lot of the enthusiasm or lack of to attend religious class has to do with the curriculum, presentation, and personality of the instructor. It's not easy, and many times instructors are not teachers by trade and don't always know the tricks of the trade like myself. I hope you can find a balace in all of this so your family can worship and practice your faith in a format that you all enjoy together and not divided.
Allen
Religion...
I was brought up catholic and developed a bad taste for it. It was very strict and recently found that if divorced and wanting to remarry, that you must recognize that your previous marriage with or without children never happened. After moving here to Florida and really after marrying my wife, I was introduced to methodism (United Methodist Church).
What I liked about this and what my children like is that there is no pressure to believe a certain way but just to believe. The atmophere is much lighter than in the Catholic Church in so many ways I couldn't begin to list them all.
As far as the children go, I don't think there has ever been a time where my children have said, "I don't want to go", they actually look forward to it but I think it comes from a possitive role model. Your wifes involvement if she wants your son to believe what he is being taught is worth learning is extremely important in that success, but you also have to be possitive. This doesn't mean you have to convert but your attitude towards it is most likely going to affect how your son feels about it.
Good luck Mike!
Bob Boisvert SAHD since 2000 with Jennifer & Sarah (11 years) and Grace (7)
I hated it as a child too...and so did my kid, until he found out he gets recess, art, and snacks at CCD. Maybe your church needs to work on their marketing of CCD. It does need to "appeal" to the kids. Our second grader does not go for the "religion" he definately goes for the food!
But in the end it is our job as parents to lead and hope as adults they make the right decisions...
Just my opinion...
MH:DG
The way I see it you have 3 problems.
1. You and your wife fundamentally disagree on the role of religion in your children's lives.
2. You and your wife fundamentally disagree on how to handle situations where your children don't want to do what you want.
3. Your son does not want to go to his Catholic school.
You need to fix 1 & 2 directly with your wife; your son should have no involvement in those discussions.
You need to decide whether catechism is important, and why. You need to decide whether your child will be allowed to determine his own religious path while he lives in your house, or only after he lives on his own. You need to decide whether compliance with a predetermined religious course is worth whatever that religion might require (such as language courses, learning to recite certain prayers, whatever) and the objections the child might have to these requirements.
You need to also decide how you're going to handle the formation and enforcement of rules. Is Dad the "bad guy" all the time? Or Mom? Or both? Can the child go from one parent to the other to get what he wants, undermining the authority of the other parent? Does one (or both) parent(s) resort to bribery, punishment, etc all the time? If you are to give the child the perception this is important and that you both agree (and you should both agree, or you may build resentment between you), then you need to have a united front and a flat system of whatever expectations, consequences, and rewards which doesn't vary between Mom and Dad.
If the child really doesn't want to go to class, it will help to understand why. Is it boring? Too long (after a long school day more class does suck)? Is the instructor verbally or emotionally abusive? Are the classmates? Does it prevent the child from doing what he really wants (e.g. he can't play baseball because practice and chuch conflict)? Is this something that can be fixed (e.g. teach at home the same principles in a more fun and rewarding way that's less regimented, perhaps)? Is this something, that like math class, just isn't an option and he needs to learn coping skills?
Good luck.
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